In the second part of the On the Road podcast, Wilfried Sam shifts the conversation with Nicolas Renier and Vincent Nguyen to institutional ground: CFJJB vs France Judo, belt equivalences, and the identity of BJJ and Luta Livre.
After part one, which explored the technical evolution of French grappling, this follow-up addresses the split and its consequences for the discipline’s future.
A rare, direct, and necessary exchange.
🎧 Listen to the full episode (Part 2/2)
1. When the Debate Becomes Political
Simple question, major stakes: why did the CFJJB leave France Judo?
If the first part of the podcast explored memory and technique, this second half radically shifts gears. We enter the institutional debate that has been shaking the community for weeks: who carries the identity of BJJ in France, and under what conditions?
Wilfried Sam asks the questions no one dares to ask publicly. Nicolas Renier and Vincent Nguyen answer without hesitation.
2. CFJJB vs France Judo: Anatomy of a Split
📜 2021: The Agreement That Was Supposed to Change Everything
Vincent Nguyen traces the history. In 2021, the CFJJB left the FFST (French Workers’ Sports Federation), which wasn’t providing much, and signed an agreement with France Judo guaranteeing autonomy and independence.
The idea: benefit from infrastructure (facilities, political reach) and structuring tools (including the CQP to professionalize teaching) without compromising Brazilian jiu-jitsu’s identity.
Vincent summarizes the sought balance: as long as the trade-off remains financial and the sport’s identity is preserved, the collaboration makes sense.
🔥 April 2024: The Brutal Turning Point
In April 2024, France Judo offers David Giorsetti a position as general director of jujitsu. Mission: use the methods that enabled the CFJJB’s development to structure all “jujitsu” disciplines (judo jujitsu, duo fighting, etc.).
But according to Vincent, decisions are made very quickly without consulting David, or even informing him beforehand. Among them:
- Belt equivalence between judo and “jujitsu” (all disciplines combined)
- A single “jujitsu” diploma no longer distinguishing Brazilian jiu-jitsu
- The possibility for a judo jujitsu instructor to teach BJJ without specific training
For Vincent, these decisions amount to denying Brazilian jiu-jitsu’s singularity as a distinct international discipline, with its own belt system, rules, and history. Accepting this means accepting the dilution of the sport’s identity into a generic “jujitsu family.”
Faced with these imposed decisions, David Giorsetti chooses to leave France Judo. Vincent explains that this choice was personally less comfortable for David, but that he had a responsibility to the BJJ community that expected him to defend the sport’s identity.
The CFJJB then affiliates with ASPTT, a delegating federation that guarantees its independence and allows it to continue issuing diplomas like the CQP.
Two readings of the split: Vincent sees it as a necessary choice to protect BJJ’s identity. Nicolas thinks it might have been better to stay inside to negotiate, given France Judo’s political weight.
3. Nicolas Meets France Judo: The Other Side of the Story
Nicolas Renier occupies a unique position in this debate.
Outside both structures, he was nevertheless invited by David Inquel, vice-president of France Judo, to discuss after posting videos on the subject.
What He Learned from This Exchange
According to Nicolas, France Judo plans to separate judo and jujitsu belts starting March 2025 (or it may already be done). David Inquel reportedly explained wanting to preserve the difference between sports, acknowledging that automatic one-way equivalence wouldn’t be fair.
The reported argument: a BJJ practitioner couldn’t become a judo black belt in a few weekends, so why would the reverse be acceptable?
Nicolas’s Strategic Position
Despite these discussions, he remains convinced that France Judo holds the political power. From the outside, he thinks it might have been more strategic to stay inside to negotiate gradually, rather than leaving completely.
Vincent responds that this strategy would have been ideal, but it simply wasn’t possible given the decisions made without consultation. David couldn’t stay in a structure where he no longer had a say on fundamental issues for the sport’s identity.
💬 The Communication Question
Nicolas also uses the podcast to criticize the CFJJB’s communication around this split.
A simple Instagram message pointing to a letter on the website, without real structured public statement.
He believes practitioners need to clearly understand what happened and what David Giorsetti’s plan is for the future, to be able to take a position with full knowledge.
Vincent hears the criticism but nuances: the CFJJB is composed of field people, not communicators. Overwhelmed by structuring work (training, competitions, development), they prefer to act rather than spend their time on social media managing controversies.
4. Judo Black Belt ≠ BJJ Blue Belt: Necessary Clarification
A rumor regularly circulates: “The CFJJB considers that a judo black belt equals a BJJ blue belt.”
Vincent clarifies: this is false.
What the Rules Actually Say
CFJJB and IBJJF rules stipulate that a judo black belt cannot compete in white belt at a Brazilian jiu-jitsu competition. It’s a safety measure: preventing an experienced judoka from injuring a complete beginner who doesn’t know how to fall or defend on the ground.
But this doesn’t mean a BJJ belt is automatically attributed to that person. In the gym, a judo black belt starts at BJJ white belt and progresses normally according to their Brazilian jiu-jitsu instructor’s evaluation.
CAF vs CQP: Two Diplomas, Two Logics
Vincent then explains the difference between two types of teaching diplomas:
The CAF (Federal Instructor Certificate) is accessible from blue belt and allows volunteer teaching. Goal: enable relatively recent practitioners to help their instructor, open a small section where there isn’t one, or supervise children’s classes. The person wears their blue belt, so their level is immediately identifiable.
CQP (Professional Qualification Certificate) is accessible from brown belt (about 8 years of practice) and allows professional teaching, meaning being paid.
The difference is clear: in the first case, it’s volunteer work with a displayed level (visible blue belt), without competing with professionals. In the second, it’s real expertise recognition after years of practice.
The underlying issue: preserving Brazilian jiu-jitsu’s singularity as a discipline with its own progression and teaching criteria, without uniformization with other “jujitsu” disciplines.
5. Luta Livre: Nicolas Strikes Hard
The podcast then returns to Luta Livre, and Nicolas Renier doesn’t mince words.
Why So Few French Representatives?
Wilfried asks the question: why is Nicolas almost the only one in France openly claiming Luta Livre today?
The answer is unequivocal: those who abandoned the name “Luta Livre” to say “grappling” or other generic terms are, according to him, cowards who abandoned ship for convenience. He even goes so far as to say they have no honor.
His argument: if everyone abandons the name, the belts end up worthless. Abandoning Luta Livre’s cultural and technical identity means collectively shooting yourself in the foot.
The Mentorship Program: 55 Gyms, Goal of 150 Instructors
Faced with this observation, Nicolas developed a mentorship program for Luta Livre instructors who are isolated or aspiring. It’s not a state diploma, but premium coaching that offers a complete teaching methodology (inspired by what he saw in Brazil and the United States), technical programming by belt, regular exchanges between instructors, and belt tracking.
Today, 55 gyms are engaged. Goal: 150 instructors trained in 3 years.
Vincent praises this initiative, believing that instructors indeed need support, not just on technique but also on developing their gym (acquiring and retaining practitioners).
6. CFJJB Under Fire: Answering Criticism
Wilfried collected the most frequent criticisms against the CFJJB on social media. He presents them to Vincent in true/false format.
❌ “The CFJJB is a mafia”
Vincent dismantles this accusation by explaining that the CFJJB indeed has a high quality standard and strong national presence (competitions every weekend across France), which can give the impression of crushing smaller organizations.
But he insists: the doors are open to all who want to contribute with their skills. He himself started by offering his services without asking for anything in return. The problem is that many criticize from the outside without ever offering their help.
❌ “You’re getting rich”
Vincent reminds that the CFJJB is an institution with an auditor and strict legal framework. Personal enrichment of leaders is impossible without oversight.
He reformulates the real question: why do competitions cost a certain amount? And he compares with IBJJF (€130 for gi, about €200 for gi + no-gi) versus CFJJB (€50 one discipline, €90 both, €30 kids).
Costs are explained: quality refereeing (training, travel, compensation to not lose the best referees), facility rental, medals, logistics staff. Vincent particularly emphasizes that children are refereed by people who officiate at world championships — this level of requirement has a price.
❌ “The CFJJB is misogynistic”
Vincent lists concrete initiatives: women’s open mats, total prize equality between men and women, a commission dedicated to promoting women’s practice, and Laurence Cousin‘s (world champion) involvement in national selections.
He acknowledges there are still too few women in selections, but explains this reflects a practice currently overwhelmingly dominated by men. The challenge: first develop women’s practice at the recreational level to then see more high-level competitors emerge.
❌ “You favor Infinity”
Vincent dismantles this accusation with an irrefutable argument: he’s responsible for refereeing, his own collective (WAO) is in direct competition with Infinity. Why would he favor a competitor?
And especially: Mathias Jardin, who works for Infinity, is the national team selector. Yet no Infinity member is in the national selection. If favoritism existed, this would be the ideal time to exercise it.
The bottom line: beyond social media controversies, Vincent calls those with constructive criticism to come discuss directly, and especially to contribute rather than criticize from afar.
7. Communication and Dialogue: Moving Beyond “Bar Discussions”
The debate returns to the importance of communication and direct dialogue.
Nicolas insists on practitioners’ need to clearly understand the situation and the project carried by CFJJB to be able to take a position with full knowledge.
Vincent responds that he prefers spending his time moving things forward rather than responding to baseless criticism thrown on social media. However, when someone comes to see him directly to discuss, he takes the time to explain, and most of the time, people understand.
Nicolas Renier concludes by saying that even if these are “bar discussions,” they’re also BJJ practitioners who need to be heard.
8. The Future of French Grappling: Two Complementary Visions
To conclude, Wilfried asks Nicolas and Vincent how they see the future of French grappling.
Nicolas: The Mat as a Unique Social Space
Nicolas delivers a vibrant plea for Brazilian jiu-jitsu and Luta Livre as unparalleled spaces of social diversity. On the mat, a lawyer trains with an unemployed person, a student with a doctor. All social backgrounds, all skin colors, all religions meet and progress together.
He also insists on the sport’s educational values.
Learning to never give up, even in the worst positions, escaping uncomfortable situations through technique and mental resilience.
His hope: that one day, BJJ and Luta Livre work together.
Perhaps in the same federation, while preserving their respective identities.
Vincent: Training the Next Generation
Vincent projects onto the sporting and educational future. He sees a very bright future when he observes the remarkable work done by gyms with young people. For him, developing champions first requires quality training from childhood.
He also emphasizes training future instructors, who will be the discipline’s best representatives. The stakes are high: what will these new teachers transmit?
His ambition: make Brazilian jiu-jitsu the most practiced combat sport in the world.
He ends on a philosophical note borrowed from jiu-jitsu: a smaller person can beat a larger one. Similarly, a smaller organization can win against a larger one if it works intelligently.
Conclusion: Growing Without Compromising
This second part of the On the Road podcast directly addresses divisive topics: institutional split, discipline identity, public criticism, future vision.
What emerges: two visions that complement rather than oppose. Nicolas and Vincent share the same goal — grow French grappling without compromising what makes it unique.
French grappling is at a crossroads. What follows will depend on everyone’s ability to continue dialoguing, on the mat and beyond.
➡️ Listen to the full episode (Part 2/2) • ➡️ Read Part 1: “French Grappling Comes of Age”